Those Horror Pals: Horror Talk

"An Interview With Ryder Houston"

November 2, 2020

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THP: What's going on, Internet? Welcome back to Horror Talk. My guest tonight is Ryder Houston, director of the movie I just reviewed, Rapture in Blue. And if I'm not mistaken, this is your first feature?

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RH: First feature. It's technically half the length of a normal feature, but... first big one.

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THP: Hell yeah! For a first feature, it's awesome. I said it in my review — it's really, truly impressive. And before we get into any of the specifics, I do want to hear your description of Rapture in Blue based on your opinions. Because I’ve got my own views on it, but I want to hear what you have to say as the writer-director.

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RH: [laughs] Well, there’s a running gag in my cast: whenever people ask us what the movie’s about, they always jokingly mock me and go, “It’s about a boy in trouble!” because I would always keep it really vague in the classic Lynchian way. I have some qualms about people focusing a lot on the specificities of the plot and the fact that it's about a sexual identity crisis and that it's a really queer story. Because to me, it really was just a human experience about denial and the fact that he’s gay is just a circumstance of the plot.

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THP: That is a fascinating way of putting it, and I think I’m inclined to agree, even though I definitely used some of the descriptions that you said irk you a bit. But before I dive into all of that, talk a little about your own film career and your relationship with David Lynch, because that’s what I want to hear about.

 

RH: Well, ever since I was little, I was always watching the behind-the-scenes of Pixar movies and weird shit that normal little kids wouldn't be doing. Throughout school, I was always making little YouTube videos and I had some success here and there, which actually helped me fund some of the movie.

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In high school, I kind of lost that film thing because I started doing more theatre. But after that was over, I really settled down and started being serious. I made this short about A Chorus Line called "Vamp Till Cue" in 2018 and that was kind of the first thing that really made people look at what I was doing seriously.​ And then I was gearing up to do Rapture and I was like, "Well, you guys ain’t seen nothing yet!"

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With David Lynch, I think it was like 2016 when I saw Twin Peaks. It had always been in my periphery. I had known the name, but I had never known what it actually was. My friend had recommended that I watch it because it's bizarre and insane. And he boasted about Fire Walk With Me like, “This is like the TV show to the max: they have nudity, swearing — it’s the full experience!” So, I was all about that.​ I think I watched Fire Walk With Me before I even saw the TV show. So that was the first time that I really fell in love with Lynch. I just dove into the rest of his career.

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Then, whenever I finally saw Lost Highway, I was like, "Ohhh!" The script that became Rapture in Blue had started out as something I was doing in high school, and I never really knew what to do with it or how to go about it.​ And after I saw Lost Highway, it was like, “This is what I want to do with it.” And that really was the most inspirational thing for the film because at that point in my life, I was dating someone that was all into Marilyn Manson and Smashing Pumpkins and stuff like that. So, I was really interested in the fact that Lynch did this neo-noir movie but injected it with all this gothic, late ’90s subculture. That was the little corner of the world that I wanted to explore in Rapture in Blue.

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THP: So, like I said, I have my whole take on this movie, and feel free to tell me if I’m right or if I’m wrong. Or, if you really want to emulate Lynch, feel free to say nothing: 

 

If you do want to strip away the sexuality crisis, ultimately you’re right — this is a film about denial, and you’ve got somebody who’s being pressured in one direction by societal standards and, on the other hand, feeling this pull towards something that I assume he believes is wrong due to something in his upbringing.​ There’s the possibility of some kind of either religious or political upbringing that seems to frown upon sexuality of any sort, since it seems they’re frowning upon the girlfriend as well.

 

So, you’ve got this pull into completely opposite directions manifesting itself as this Kiefer Sutherland demon man running out of the darkness and acting as a constant reminder of what Jason actually wants versus what he feels he should want.​ All that culminates in the final bit when the other guy — I'm sorry, what’s his name?

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RH: Sebastian.

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THP: Sebastian, thank you — yeah — when his head pops like a watermelon.

 

RH: Sebastian gets bashed-in...

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THP: Ah, nice!

 

And the ending — it’s very reminiscent of The Return in that it’s open-ended and horrifying, but I also think that it’s kind of heartwarming in a weird way that feels like a sense of acceptance.

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RH: Hmm... acceptance?

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THP: I mean self-acceptance, in that the whole making out with his own reflection thing is both literal and metaphorical. And I think there’s something to be said about that being the final moment of the film before the hard smash to black and fade-out scream.

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RH: It could be the initial catalyst to acceptance, but I definitely think that moment is a moment of extreme doom and dread. I think that Jason is gonna be forever running from that. And I don’t think he’ll ever accept it. So, I think in that moment, that’s when he knows. He realizes the truth of what’s actually going on, and that’s when it silences him.

 

THP: Interesting. Much bleaker than I viewed it. Much more nihilistic — I'm a fan.

 

To dive into that a little more, though, there’s a very specific type of horror that Lynch does brilliantly, and I think that Rapture delves into that abstract horror in a way that I’ve never seen a first-time director capture so well. So, props to you for that. Can you talk a little bit about that process and what works specifically inspired Rapture in Blue? I know you were saying Lost Highway, but I was also seeing a lot of Fire Walk With Me and Inland Empire in there as well.

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RH: Yeah! What did you see about Inland Empire? I’m curious.

 

THP: I think the whole lo-fi aesthetic of the film is very reminiscent of Inland Empire, and I don’t know if it was intentional or due to budget, but either way it worked. And then you’ve got the overall seedy but still kind of lavish feel of the specific locations you chose.​ And you had like an actual "roadhouse" moment in the middle of the film, which I think is awesome because it's total vibes of the “Questions In A World Of Blue" scene from Fire Walk, and I think it's impressive that you managed to capture that vibe without it feeling derivative.​ So, good job at balancing that line really well, because that’s not an easy thing to straddle.

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RH: Well, I’m super glad you say that. There was a part of me that was really insecure. When people criticize it, a lot of them say, “This is almost too Lynchian that its own voice gets drowned out."​ But when I was making it, and when I was writing the script and storyboarding it and visualizing the scenes — all of the Lynchisms that were injected into the film were not me trying to rip off Lynch. They legitimately came from me just understanding that cinematic vocabulary that he was using to construct his scenes albeit not to the skill that he does it, but I just really resonate with that language. I said, “Well, this, of course, is just the way to portray what I’m trying to tell.” There's no other way I can do it — it just feels so right.​ Lynch says, “Stay true to the idea. Keep your eye on the donut, not the hole," and that was what I was doing. I was just doing what I saw in my head and I wasn’t going to compromise just because it was "too Lynch-y."

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THP: But I think there’s something to be said about the fact that it’s not just "Lynchian." You’re taking techniques that the big man perfected, and you’re using them to tell your own story in your own voice.​ And I think that’s very interesting too: that you’re not only able to understand that cinematic vocabulary in a way that makes you capable of effectively translating it into film, but that you’re capable of crafting a full story utilizing purely Lynchian abstractions. And that’s not an easy task as a writer-director. It’s kind of mind-blowingly cool for someone at your age. Like — how old are you again?

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RH: [laughs] The only reason why it happened the way it happened is because I was in a deep, committed, loving relationship with David Lynch and it was truly just out of a place of intense love and passion.

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THP: I mean, I like to think that we’re all in a collective polyamorous relationship with David Lynch at all times. I mean, I certainly am. He’s — it’s fine. He can do what he wants.

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RH: I love that! I was originally gonna play Sebastian, but my boyfriend at the time was uncomfortable with me doing it. So, I respected that and I didn’t. But I also think that he actually was blessing me because if I was playing Sebastian, oh man... it would've been so convoluted and complicated to direct and be in the shot. It would have been ridiculous. And also Tanner... I never thought that would happen. Tanner is incredible. An incredible witch-seductress.

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THP: Can we talk a little bit more about, uh... Kiefer Sutherland monster man?

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RH: The Pink Man.

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THP: "The Pink Man" — is that the name? Okay. So, where did that idea come from? I think the argument can be made that he represents latent queerness of some kind. I’m wondering where that abstraction came from — this demonic, shrieking thing as a representation of repressed homosexuality.

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RH: Well, I think you know!

 

THP: Okay, so, there’s a couple things I can think of, and they’re all Lynch, but — which one? There’s BOB, there’s the Mystery Man from Lost Highway, there’s the Phantom from Inland Empire...

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RH: It was kind of an amalgamation of all of those — that idea of some kind of stalker. In the first drafts of the script, he was just "The Stranger." There was a scene where Sebastian takes Jason out to some bar or something — I think it was going to be kind of like the nightclub scene — and he first meets "The Stranger," the guy who’s been following him. It was just going to be kind of a regular guy, more like a "BOB-ish" guy, that spoke with an unsettling Southern accent and would threaten him with these slow, smooth words of dread and guilt.​ But then I kind of just — um... why did I make The Pink Man? To be honest with you, it is one of the biggest things about the film that I regret.

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THP: Really?

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RH: Bryce definitely doesn’t like it. He calls it his audition for the ’90s Goosebumps TV show. [laughs] And, I mean, I love Goosebumps, so if it did go into the Goosebumps territory, that was intentional.​ But I regret it because it's super phantasmagorical and really over-the-edge — it wasn’t quite what I had in my head. If we had more money for makeup and special effects, he would have come out a lot differently.

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THP: How? In what sense? I’m curious because I love good makeup stories.

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RH: Well, it was originally based on this painting by this abstract artist that was more of like a kind of disfigured monster figure. So, the fact that we couldn’t really distort his face that much kind of made it a little silly.

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THP: Okay, so, I actually think I’m going to disagree on that — I don’t think it’s silly. I understand how it could be construed as silly, but given the tone of the movie and how weird and insane everything else is emotionally and on a human level, I think it works because it fits in with that level of chaos while being very uncanny valley about it.

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RH: Well, thanks for saying that. It makes me really happy when people actually say that they were scared by it. I love it when people tell me that because I’m like, “Oh, my God, I could never be scared by this," [laughs] but whenever people are like, “I was so scared when that happened,” I’m like, “Yes! Well, at least it’s working for some people."​ Really, I think the reason why he came out the way he did was because color was extremely important. Everything that’s a certain color in this movie is very intentional. The whole story was very much bound to this theology that I created with the colors.

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THP: I mean, the name makes sense given what he represents. And now that I think about it, it was kind of very obvious.

 

So, kind of veering away a little bit, let’s talk about your other influences — do you have any favorite directors? Favorite horror movies, etc.?

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RH: Definitely. Somebody once said about the movie, "It’s like if Greg Araki fucked David Lynch," [laughs] and I’m like, “That’s perfect, I want to put that on the poster!”​ Araki definitely was a big inspiration. Have you seen The Doom Generation?

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THP: I have not, actually.

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RH: You haven't? Rose McGowan’s first movie — it’s really good.

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THP: Oh, shit! Okay, you sold it to me on that alone — I’ll check it out.

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RH: It’s basically Rapture in Blue minus the Lynchian stuff. It definitely inspired the aesthetic, that "Nine Inch Nails-y" kind of vibe. That "hell world." The really forced hardcore vibes and all the neon colors.​ His film Nowhere was also aesthetically inspirational — the use of colors and stuff. I was really trying to go for an authentic late ’90s aesthetic for the whole movie and I think I might have captured that, especially when you compare it to Araki’s early —

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THP: I think you did!

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RH: — thanks — but I think especially when you compare it to Araki’s early stuff, I think it kind of matches a little bit.​

 

Other favorite directors... I love Bob Fosse. Do you know who that is?

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THP:  Yeah!

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RH: Yeah, the musical theatre director and he did a bunch of films. I love his sensibilities and his kind of darkness — and that’s going to come in handy for the next film that I’m doing, which is more theatre-based.

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As far as my favorite horror films: the original Nightmare on Elm Street. The first movie in itself is just so intense — it’s so good. So good.

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THP: That was actually my first horror movie I ever saw. I stand by Elm Street 3 being the best in the franchise. And I stand by that movie being the only reason I’m still squigged out by tendons to this day.

 

And you actually answered my next question already: I was going to ask about your next upcoming projects and whether or not you were going to be using those Lynch influences or if you’d step into something new.​ But like you said, your next thing is going to be more based in theatre and Broadway?

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RH: Lynch is always going to be a heavy influence because I just resonate with his style a lot. But it’s definitely not going to be Lynch-specific besides maybe something like Mulholland Drive. I’m focusing more on De Palma stuff — stuff like Carrie... 

 

THP: Phantom of the Paradise...​

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RH: Yeah!

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THP: I saw this as a deeply personal movie. You said that’s not the case, so, if you’re comfortable doing so, can you delve into what parts that are based in reality and what parts are just totally fabricated?​ I do want to hear about your relationship with this movie as a whole.

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RH: Well, it’s really interesting because I wasn’t thinking about it when I made the film. Because to me, like I said, all of the stuff about sexuality was really just a circumstance of the plot to move the story forward.​ I’m like, “Okay, he’s running from something, blah blah blah. What can I do? Oh yeah, he’s gay — let’s do that!”​ It wasn’t so nonchalant, but it really wasn’t like I had something strong to say about being gay — it just happened.

 

And it’s really weird because after I look back at that movie, I wonder, “Wow, this seems really is internally homophobic and about somebody’s struggle coming out.”​ It’s weird because I actually had it really easy. In elementary and middle school, there were stupid comments here and there that could be considered bullying like, “Are you gay?”​ But in high school, I really kept to myself. I wasn’t really picked on because I had a really good group of friends and I was just really secure with who I was.​ There wasn’t ever an issue with it.

 

So, it’s kind of strange to me that this movie came out this way because there wasn’t ever really a time I felt like that besides when I very first started realizing that I was gay — that was the only time. It was pretty devastating.​ I would look at myself in the mirror and be like, “You’re not gay! You’re not gay!” And I’d be bawling and I would cry myself to sleep.​ So, I mean, there is a little part of that. But I don’t think about that a lot! That’s not something that haunts me. It's really in the past.​ To me, being gay is such a meme now that it just really doesn’t bother me.

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So, it’s crazy that this film came out the way it did. It makes me wonder if people who watch it think that it’s a really personal story, like you did. But it really isn’t. It really is just about like a boy in denial, and being gay is just happenstance.​ So, really, this is just about core human themes like truth and lies and denial and running from the truth and reality and deception.​ Maybe the "gay" part just happened because I am gay, so, I was like, “I’m not afraid to talk about this.” But it really wasn’t a personal anecdote.

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THP: That’s totally fair. I think it’s just very easy for things to feel personal, especially in 2020 with everything going on and with identity being such a key talking point in the discourse right now. I think it’s very easy to assign those personal touches to a movie like this, and I think that’s a sign of good art. So, good job, man.

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RH: Maybe the reason why it does feel so personal is because although the story isn’t extremely personal to me, all of the emotions and the aggressions and the feelings in the movie are extremely personal.​ The emotional force behind everything is passionate and personal, but the specificities of the plot are not — that’s just completely made-up.

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THP: I just think it’s super rad to get to talk to other indie filmmakers and hopefully get some insight into their process and give some people out there some insight as well.​ So, I do hope that those of you watching found this interesting and inspiring in some way.​ Ryder, thank you so much for coming on, man.

 

RH: I bet I appreciate it more than you! [laughs]

 

THP: I would highly recommend checking out Rapture in Blue. You can currently find it streaming on Prime Video and you can also find it on DVD.